This place is like 'Father's Day' in any trailer trash town - causes mass confusion ! :)

camp, is your dad my dad? - cos I remember him telling this joke too!

Muslims are Muslims, Christians are Christians - that is not the point. One does not prove or disprove the other. On a relative scale, it is known that the Islamic world was more tolerant (in the context of its time) than other peoples. It's not hatred - it's stating the facts. Whenever an entity is in power, it will do whatever it can to stay in power, to maintain its supremacy. It just so happens that for ancient Muslim powers, Sharia law was the main weapon of control - and Sharia law was/is not some modern "Bill of Rights" but a system which was destructive to those suffering it - hence why I detest any whiff of fundamentalist crap in the modern world.

The point is: all people invade other if they can, in general. Arabs and Muslims have traditionally done so both because they can, and when they can, they don't use Confucian or Shinto philosophy - they use all useful aspects of Islamic philosophy, including implementing Sharia law to subjugate their people. Simple point, surely!?

All true, but you are using a diversionary tactic of the "tu quoque" logical fallacy - Christians did an unmentionable number of horrible things to their subjugates, in the name of power and their flavour of Christianity - still doesn't detract from the fact that Muslims did/do the same to others in the name of their religion, and Ottomans did to Armenians, Assyrians and Greeks.

I also don't understand what you're saying about this Turkish law - basically you admitting and accepting that young Armenian, Christian children (mainly girls, as they are more malleable), were adopted and made into Islamic brides - why waste good "meat" ? I have come across a surprising number of Turks (Fethiye Cetin, etc.) who suddenly discover that their GRANDMOTHER was an Armenian. Ataturk had an adopted daughter who was an Armenian orphan - I bet she wasn't brought up to have a knowledge of her past and religion, in the way say a black baby adopted by white parents might ensure has exposure to African/Caribbean culture...

You are obfuscating, and that has been the trick that the Turkish government has been trying for decades - "let us bring together a consortium of experts and discuss" - there has already been unlimited amounts of discussion, scholarship, etc. - sure, we can have another one, but the whole attempt is to divert energy, to make it into a "historical" debate rather than maintaining its politicized aspects.

A few Turks did indeed hide Armenians but in those far-flung days of of the 1915-1920's, many were simply 'adopted' (ie married to a Muslim - Turk or Arab), especially the young, pretty girls - why don't you mention that? Bedouin Arabs were also famous for doing so, as were the Hamidiye Kurds - a convenient fact that yo don't care to mention. In any one nation, there are enough people who are "human" and did indeed help their neighbours but the majority didn't.

In fact, another great Turkish intellectual and friend of Armenians (and one I've met, shook his hand and have a signed copy of his book "A shameful act") is Professor Taner Akcam, a kindly academic. He has already accessed the Ottoman archives and come to the same conclusion!:

http://goo.gl/Cho72
http://goo.gl/xpjSd

For his sins, he told me how much he and his wife suffered at the hands of Turkish nationalists, who fire-bombed his flat in Istanbul.

Ah yes, the Azeris, you've hit the nail on the head. The Turks were not genuine about their offer. To be honest, and this is my personal opinion, I wish they'd get on with opening the archives but I don't understand what use it is - the non-Turkish, non-Armenian primary sources unequivocally and indisputably demonstrate a planned extermination - a genocide - took place. If I was the state of Turkey, and had something to hide, I would surely "doctor" the archives and make bad things "disappear"? Just saying.

From Wiki: Under Islamic law, jizya or jizyah is a per capita tax levied on a section of an Islamic state's non-Muslim citizens, who meet certain criteria. The tax is and was to be levied on able-bodied adult males of military age and affording power. From the point of view of the Muslim rulers, jizya was a material proof of the non-Muslims' acceptance of subjection to the state and its laws, "just as for the inhabitants it was a concrete continuation of the taxes paid to earlier regimes." In return, non-Muslim citizens were permitted to practice their faith, to enjoy a measure of communal autonomy, to be entitled to the Muslim state's protection from outside aggression, and to be exempted from military service and the zakat taxes obligatory upon Muslim citizens.

I am ready to accept that the Ottoman Empire was of course primarily an "imperial" entity. However, once the imperial side of things was achieved, at the ground level, the Ottoman rulers - Sultans, local governors, etc. were Muslims - and though more enlightened as compared to retard Bedouins from the Gulf, they still derived their primary "modus operandi" from what was their intrinsic driving force - Islam and the Islamic philosophy. I then give various examples of the Armenian, Assyrian/Nestorian and Greek experiences of how that Islamic regime was imposed - by implementing the basic tenets of Sharia law 1) Jizya - the tax that non-Muslims had to pay - it ended up being prohibitive for most minorities 2) not being permitted new churches 3) preaching/proselytizing on pain of death, and so on. All these were experienced by Armenians, and readily accepted as fact by Turks and Muslims

Cher is a better example of an Armenian-American - even though she is a little too Hollywood - but she's a talented singer/musician, an Oscar-winning actress, etc. Kim K is the biggest ho on the planet, even though she's quite pretty.

... and a proud statement by an invading, Islamic force of the supremacy of their God-given right to conquer, no? The ultimate Islamic victory over the heart of ancient Christendom? even the whitewashed walls of St Sophia are naturally to adhere to the Islamic rule forbidding the depiction of the human form in art, especially in religious buildings, no?

The way any invading force works (especially one based on religion), is firstly to subjugate and break down the people being invaded, then to allow the subjugated minority to rebuild themselves under the invaders conditions. There is indeed even an Armenian Patriarchate in Istanbul - and here is another example of "subtle" Sharia and discrimination, embodied in modern Turkish law - Armenians are not allowed to to build new churches. They can apply to renovate churches and schools but the red-tape and local laws are so designed, that things get wrapped around for not years but decades - permissions for renovations in the majority never really come through. If you go to the old Armenian districts (please go to Kumkapi area) - most of the Armenian buildings are in a state of disrepair.

I agree Flap - it wasn't all bad, when taken in context - I recently learned that the reason that Armenians have 1/4 of the city of Jerusalem even to this day is because they had political leverage within the Ottoman courts - so they managed to get a good chunk: http://goo.gl/5dHFC

However, I maintain that it was more because, under the threat of religious/ethnic persecution, Armenians knew their place in the Ottoman and Islamic hierarchy, so kept quiet. And as you know, as soon as they agitated for independence, the Turks came down like a ton of bricks, and wiped them all out.

You are already my friend. :)

Delicious - Armenians call it "Armenian pizza"!

You and Captain asked "what has Islam got to do with this" - and I gave a simple example, as explained above - basically that as soon as the Arabs could - FRESH with the message of Mohammed (the invading armies and generals would actually mostly have heard the prophet preaching or the core of the Koran and its preachings were new, unadulterated, "as is", accurate, not diluted by later writings - so I am saying if people argue that people take Islam out of context now, 7 years after Mohammed's preachings, one of the the first things Arabs did was to invade, convert or subjugate ancient Armenia.

On that point I agree - I would genocide them myself if I could.

Cigar - the Armenians very quickly adapted to their state of being the "giaour" - the double-tax paying, third class Christian infidels within an Islamic Empire - they concerned themselves with industry, banking, handicrafts, medicine (a lot like Jews in Europe) - but Armenians KNEW their place - so Turkish historians would claim they were the "loyal millet" ("millet-i sadıka") - "millet" roughly means "grouping" or a self-contained religious group. Advanced for its time, and not a bad model, but in the absolute sense it was really a polite subjugation and way of controlling by giving "some" autonomy to a minority. Nonetheless, it was not like a pluralistic Britain in the 21st Century !

One of the biggest and most respected Armenian communities in the ME is in Syria - just across the border from Turkey - in Deir-ez-Zor and Aleppo - but because our Western chums have been destabilising Syria, Armenians (and other Christians) have been victimised and killed by the idiot Jihadis flooding the country. Muslim persecution continues.

So far I have only provided factual evidence, a whole body of evidence. Turkey a few years ago set up a body to observe, categorise and chronicle all world-wide Armenian organisations; one of their main findings was that Turkish historians, writers, etc. have only produced "800 works of importance" whereas the Armenians have "over 10,000 scholarly articles, books, etc." To be honest, the Muslim element is less important - it is the Turkish nationalist mentality, resulting from deep cultural, historical and religious mindsets that is the issue.

As an aside, there are massive communities of Armenians in the Middle East - Iran, Lebanon, Syria, Egypt, Jordan, the Gulf, etc... all respected and generally loved by the Arabs... but I think only because !) Armenians are not a threat 2) Traditionally, they know their place within Islamic society because of historical experience 3) They know their place. Many orphaned Armenian kids were "adopted" (read: young girls were married off to Muslim men) after the Genocide.

I knew this one was coming ;) The Armenians were more than ready to truly, openly share archives, but the Turks set heavy pre-conditions, pre-conditions that they knew Armenians could not accept, and in a politically clever coup-d'etat, "showed" that the Armenians had reneged on their promise. Armenia is ready right now, Turkey does not want to talk.

http://goo.gl/sK9mT

I apologise for not having any more detail, but as you can see, from 600-1923, most of what Armenians suffered was to do with the surrounding empires, all Muslim. And the majority of those empires implemented sharia and all associated heavy taxes, conversions and destructions.

1400 - Tamerlane's devastating invasion of Georgia, Armenia and Central Anatolia leads to the slaughter of large portions of the population of Armenia and the enslavement of over 60,000 people from Anatolia and the Caucasus.
1502 - The fanatical Shi'ite Safavid Dynasty is established in Persia, that conquers most of Armenia.
1520 - Large portions of Armenia are conquered by Selim I.
1532 - The second series of Ottoman-Persian wars rage in Armenia (to 1555)
1598 - Continuation of the devastating Jelali revolts in Anatolia. (to 1611)
1603 - Shah Abbas of Persia invades Ottoman Armenia. (to 1618)
1623 - The final Ottoman-Safavid War rages in Armenia. (to 1639)
1747 - The Persians establish the Karabakh Khanate.
1894-1896 - Hamidian Massacres: An estimated 80,000–300,000 are killed.
1909 - Adana Massacre: An estimated 15,000–30,000 are killed.
1915 - Armenian Genocide: An estimated 1,500,000 are killed. (to 1923)

1194 - After the decline of the Seljuk dominace in the region, Eastern Anatolia is ruled by a slew of Turkish emirates and tribes, such as the Ahlatshahs, Mengujekids, Saltukids and the Artuqids. (to 1241)
1241 - Mongol Invasion of Anatolia, much of the sedentary population of Armenia is slaughtered. (to 1244)
1256 - Turco-Mongol rule continues in Eastern Anatolia under the Ilkhanate rulers and their Turkish and Kurdish vassals. (to 1335)
1335 - The decline of Mongol power leads Armenia to be dominated once again by Anatolian Turkoman tribes such as the Chobanids. (to 1400)
1375 - Fall of the Armenian kingdom of Cilicia to the Mameluks of Egypt and their Ramadanid vassals.

639 - The first Arab invasion under the leadership of Abd ar-Rahman ibn Rabiah devastates the region of Taron.
642 - Arabs storm the city of Dvin killing 12,000 its inhabitants and taking 35,000 into slavery.
645 - Theodorus Rshtuni and other Armenian nakharars accepted Muslim rule over Armenia.
650 - Armenia becomes the main battleground of the Khazar–Arab Wars & Byzantine–Arab Wars which leaves the lands depopulated. (to 750)
861 - Ashot I Bagratuni is recognized as prince of princes by the Baghdad court, followed by a war against local Muslim emirs. (to 862)
1064 - Byzantine Ani, once the capital of Bagratid Armenia, is conquered and destroyed by the Seljuk Turks.
1071 - After the Battle of Manzikert, Seljuk dominance is established over Anatolia and a large number of Turkish tribes migrate to the region.
1072 - The Seljuks sell Ani to the Shaddadid, a Kurdish tribe ruling a territory coinciding with modern day Armenia.

The Christians subjugated, killed or converted were: Armenians, Byzantine Greeks, Nestorians, Maronites, Chaldeans, Assyrians - all Christian subgroups. Don't forget that Armenia was the FIRST Christian nation to adopt Christianity in 301 AD, 13 years before the Emperor Constantine made it the official religion of his Byzantine empire.

Arab Conquest of Armenia: http://goo.gl/EqcHa

... in 639, the Lake Van region of Turkey (heartland of Armenia) was over-run by 20,000 Arabs; in 642, 10's of thousands of Armenians were killed and even more carried off into slavery. The ancient chronicles attest to these incidents with writings depicting at the barbarity and religious zeal with which the Arabs came. Another 400 years later, the Islamized Turkic tribes began to pour into the Armenian heartland, systemically invading, converting and killing the Armenians, Assyrians and Byzantine Greeks to Islam. Remember, the heartland of Anatolia (of what is South East Turkey now) was and still is a heartland of Christianity.

Just 7 years after the great prophet Mohammed had ascended to heaven, the Arab tribes in 632 AD, fresh with the zeal of Islam, fresh in their minds in its unadulterated, undiluted, pure form poured into Armenia and subjugated the "giaour" "kuffar" "infidel Christian" Armenians.

Why so much to hide, why so much to be angry about? Germans, Japanese, Americans, the French, etc. have all come to terms with their history - no Brit will every question that the British Empire did very bad things to its subject peoples. 99% of Germans will feel ashamed of Hitler and the collective madness their grandfathers went through - however, they accept history, and have been able to move on, confident of who they are - the Turks and Turkey - still denying, fighting and silencing the truth.

Why is all this important? It is important because the past only becomes history when the truth is laid to rest - if it's not, then it continues not as history but become politics - so Turkey's denial of the Armenian Genocide is reflected in the discrimination against Armenians is still rife in Turkey - they have to change their names; even when enlightened Turks mention "Armenian deaths", "massacres" and "genocide" there is actually a law in Turkey now, Article 301 in the Turkish Penal Code (http://goo.gl/l5gYd) which makes it an offence to "insult Turkishness/The Turkish nation" - so Turkish nobel prize-winning novelist Orhan Pamuk, Elif Shafak and others have got into trouble for daring to mention the taboo word/subject. An ethnic Armenian newspaper editor, Hrant Dink, was shot dead a few years in Istanbul for daring to suggest that "bad things happened" and that "it was time for reconciliation and talking about this subject" - the extreme racist nationalist Turks are ready to kill, their state has laws...

Next time I'll be more polite ! :)

The concept of "genocide" was presented to the League of Nations by Raphael Lemkin, a Polish lawyer/historian of Jewish descent, in 1933, after he studied the destruction of the Armenians.

It was a combination of imperialist Ottoman ambitions and the implementation of the basic/strict tenets of Islamic sharia law which drove this destruction. Add to it German brains, British, French and Russian imperialistic games in Anatolia and the Caucasus, the Armenians rightly stood up to gain their rightful independence from the Ottoman/Muslim yoke. The Young Turks, a movement that started off with good ideals for a modern Turkey, turned on the Armenians and planned their systematic extermination under the pretext of "national security."

The thing that amazes me is that Boris and yourself are smart and informed guys - and I swear I am not some conservative right-wing nut - and I have ALWAYS (as much as is possible in this frustrating realm of typed text) never have attacked 'individual people' who happen to be Muslims. However, I do reserve the right to criticise any "-ism" whether it be creationism, Islamism, communism, Catholicism, whatever-ism - it all implies a closed mindset. Anyway, soon, I will post something which I expect YOU to participate in.. ;) For me, that will be the acid test that will explain who you really are and if you really are intellectually partial on these matters !

Bacon = the Chuck Norris of food

I am always surprised when feminists and gays support Islam - they would be the first to suffer if they ever ended up in countries that fully implement Islam in its correct form, or if they are born or grow up in a Muslim household.

With due respect, your logic has failed.

The power of a horse's kick is not something I'd like to experience !

What Americans call the "liberals"/"communists" and we in the UK/Europe call "socialists"/"lefties" are having paroxysms - in the search after the bombing, it was well-documented that they were "hoping" the terrorists were "white" and complaining that everyone was jumping to conclusions and blaming Muslims. Now that they've been demonstrated the worst of all Muslims - Chechens are known to be extremely radical, aggressive, historically warlike with hundreds of years of fighting the Russians and other Christian minorities in the Caucasus region - the liberal leftie self-brainwashed fools are suddenly quiet while they begin to foment conspiracy theories that go against all the evidence and logic which we can all plainly see to end up blaming everything and everyone else.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/…

http://urbandictionary.com/define.php/…

That shark is one of Eco's ancient ancestors - no wonder he's such a bad-ass !

The things I would do to Princess Jasmine...

I have respect for the gal 'cos she took it on the chin real well. If it had been reversed, that guy would have cried like a fucking baby - you can just tell he's the sort !

The illogic of chanting "God is great" just as you've had the shit bombed out of you is always puzzling.

Respect to the bus driver - many a times I've wanted to teach these little shits some manners. Kids nowadays don't know when to shut the fuck up.

That piglet is adorable.

My bad, but I just needed an excuse to use the word "anthropomorphizing"...

This is just such a shit way of talking about the natural world - animals are perfectly adapted to their environment - and to talk about them in the way the narrator does by anthropomorphizing them then demeaning them is utter shit in the "emotive" way he does; for example, chimps can't talk as they simply have not evolved the speech centre that we humans have - not because they're inferior. This must rank as the crappest, most unscientific documentary ever.

You can still see plenty of these guys in some parts of Northern England on a Friday night coming out of pubs !

I really wanna have Islamic sex with this woman !

... one can say you're feeling a little "wonky" ?!

What a woman - I think I'm in love !

It hasn't been a good day for pigeons - pelican swallows one whole and now this....

I think the concepts for Azazel and Neytiri were better than the actual final versions used.

Plus didn't anyone hear the farting sounds - maybe the driver/passengers shatted themselves...

I want an owl now ! :)

I'd wanna bang bang her firm ass.

... and the other neg is from BorisYeltsin - the two "policemen" who censor everything that I write.

BTW, the person who negged my comment is olympicWanker, just to let you know his true sentiments.

The Americans I know (ie relatives and friends) are some of the hardest working mofo's - a few have even taken on 2 jobs to keep family and home, working 15 hours a day. America is a country where if you generally work hard, if you have ambition, if your head is screwed on right, if you are willing to put the time and sweat in, you will succeed. I wish I was in America right now. It's not perfect, but it truly is the land of opportunity.

When I used to do the martial arts years ago, one of the most dangerous punches to debilitate an opponent was on the "solar plexus" - basically just below the chest and above the stomach - ie where that guy took a mallet. It could kill somebody as there are many nerves that radiate from that region. It is not "tough" to get whacked there but stupid. I was punched there once, and couldn't breathe properly for 3 whole weeks - maybe it's 'cos I ain't a soldier but it really is not necessary...

I would die a happy man if I could put an axe to that shithead's skull.

The story of my life.

Gorillas have 2 inch penises ? I am obviously descended from them and not chimps.

Oh no, he was a great actor and much liked. RIP.

I have no probllems with those of an African-American heritage, but obviously this one was a nigger. Act first, think after.

I can watch most things on H6 with not a flinch, but these fails and accidents always cause my testicles to retract.

The power and strength of the bulls is amazing - the way it was flipping those vehicles, and just throwing them tard bitches around - they thought they were so "macho"... fucking dicks.

I'd to Tamsin but also do animal tests on all the other ugly fat bitches.

Mother Nature is such an evil bitch that most of her videos are worthy H6 material.

And take it in the ass. - Greek girls like that...

He made some good points.

Bullshit 'sport' - glad the bull bullseyed the fucker in the bullocks.

"It's "believed" to be good for the health" - when I was a kid, my mom went one better - she dropped me on my head and I turned out to be the fucking retard that I am.

I've had a few ugly pigs in my lifetime too.

[image][image][image]

One thing's for sure - there are more dog lovers than dog haters in this world, hard as it might be to believe.

Yeah guys, I just wanted to steer away from the obvious stuff. I do agree however - corruption is endemic at every level. Take Nigeria - it is one of the wealthiest of the sub-Saharan countries yet the corruption on the "annual corruption leagues" literally puts it at the bottom of the pile - it is THE most corrupt country. The North African countries are better, but nothing to write home about. South Africa has all the potential, and it has done reasonably well, but it's still fucked up in many ways. I really can't see a way the Africa can progress. I think the model of the classic colonial powers of Britain, France, Portugal, etc. worked a little but have not yielded any lasting results.

The Chinese are heavily investing in Africa to get their hands on the mineral resources in return for building entire cities, sports stadiums, etc. but I recall watching a documentary in it, and the Chinese manager of some huge mining company was complaining that the Africans just did not work hard enough - he had taken 4 days off in 4 years... this is why China is China, and Africa is Africa.

I know poor Africa suffers from hunger, but this is ridiculous !

Mother Nature - you're a fucking bitch !

I wish I could fly like a bird - the fuckers have got one up on us mammals - bats as small flying mammals are amazing, but only birds are the masters of the air.

I don't have much to look forward to... :(

Purple area girls are the best !

This was the final result:

[image]

The fucken song kept on saying, "It won't be long now..." and yet it seemed to go on like a fucken eternity - but still interesting.

Is he part of the chain-gang ?

We welcome you to H666 with open arms and some even have gapingly open goatses.

I'd still lick it 'cos pussy's pussy !

It's tough being testicles - your best friend is a dick, and you live next to an asshole.

I feel a yearning for my home planet. :(

He must have felt very 'tired' afterwards.

I know the tigers need feeding; I know the goat or some other animals will have to die somehow - but the fucking Chinese just have no sense of empathy or care when it comes to the suffering they cause to animals which they regard as food or medicine.

He's actually quite a funny politician - Nigel Farage.

It is very rare for a baby elephant like this to be so alone or so lost. One possible explanation is that human motherfucker hunters had killed the mother/herd, and the poor thing was lost.

I like you. I will book my ticket to the US on the Enterprise.